AW: So you knew Matt in New York?

Steve: They don't like to talk about it, but they were in a basement band together… They didn't make it to the garage. They were locked in the basement! They knew each other in diapers, actually…

AW: Matt, you need to hold the microphone so people can hear you.

Matt: (shyly) Hey.

AW: That's good.

Matt: (shyly, again) Thank you. (laughter)

AW: It was a basement, diaper band… That's what you're trying to say? Talk a little about Flood. Everybody is familiar with that song. Tell us the story and what that did for you guys and how you're recovering… no that's not the right word…

Charlie: I like it when Matt tells this story.

AW: And we've got to say that's one of the biggest Christian songs in the last few years, quite easily, as far as recognizability. Go ahead Matt!

Matt: Well I guess we don't really know exactly how that happened. We can just tell the story from our perspective. Basically we put out our record in early '95 and had been touring with a wonderful band called PFR for about a year. And then we had just gotten a great opportunity to open for Michael W. Smith and we were all really excited and jazzed about that. It was when we were out on the road with him that we found out that our mainstream record company was really interested in releasing, Flood, as a single, to a bunch of modern rock stations. So that's what they did and all of a sudden we had lots of extra things to do while we were out with Smitty. Like we would go visit various stations that were playing it and play it on the air for them… and it quickly worked itself into a fury for us! And it kind of kept us busy for a whole other year with tours and festivals. It was very much for us, as for most people… it was very much out of the blue. We found ourselves reacting to what was happening rather than planning and we really didn't have time to process it that much.

AW: I think maybe one thought too, and maybe Dan might jump on this as well… is that, this put you into a club situation. You guys had been playing in churches and Christian events primarily and had come out of a Christian background. Then all of a sudden, you guys were thrown into something very different. Talk about that a little bit, talk about the San Francisco situation and what you saw.

Dan: Kind of like Matt said. In the midst of being on this Michael W. Smith tour, we were given the opportunity to go out and start building relationships with mainstream radio stations and different people like that. We ended up performing and found ourselves in a lot of bars and a lot of clubs playing concerts… feeling a bit out of place at first cause we weren't really used to being in that situation. I think it opened our eyes, quite a bit, to a side of the culture that the church wasn't really affecting and that was just simply the youth culture in these bars and these clubs. The people that were there, the church hadn't really reached out to them yet, or at least it didn't seem like that from our perspective. So I think that was when we recognized that maybe this was where God was calling us, even though it seems really uncomfortable right now. Maybe He is calling us to be out there and be light in a dark place. So we stumbled upon that. Our first real experience with that was in a club in San Francisco. It was one of the first clubs we played. It was a really, really tough first show in a club. We pulled up in our bus and stepped off and right in front of the club was a bouncer, a big security guy, wearing a shirt that said, "My favorite number is 666." Then we walked into the club and above the stage… just had a tiny stage, maybe a little bigger than the one we're on here. There's this big mural of like a goat's head on the back wall. So really it was sort of trial by fire. We were walking in there… a bunch of kids that had mostly grown up in the church. We had experienced a bit of the club culture, cause we'd been to concerts in places like that, but to be in that atmosphere like that was a little scary. But we did watch the audience change over the course of the concert! During one part of it, there was a little brawl that broke out on one side of the bar. And they were pulling people out. They were a bit of an obnoxious, rowdy bunch. And you could just watch the countenance of every person in there just change. And you watched God move into this place, and by the end of the show, there was just a very obvious difference. What had come with us into that club was something we could not have expected. But to see the Holy Spirit move in a place like that! And so, that's when, I think, we all looked at each other and said, "Ok, This is where we're supposed to be right now. We understand that this is our calling." And over the course of the next year, we wrestled with that and we had battles with ourselves of what we really felt we needed to do. We did some clubs where we didn't say enough and some where we said too much. It just became a constant struggle to try to figure out what is our place amidst God's plan in these places. That was a difficult thing, but I guess that brings us back to where we are now.

Steve: I think it's been obvious, too, that the reason God hasn't given us some sort of formula or plan when we go into those places is just so we won't end up relying on what we think we understand. I don't know if you can relate to this as a youth worker… just having certain things that you can rely on, that kind of work most of the time. I think that's the tension we felt then, because sometimes we want to say more than we should, or sometimes we don't say enough. We have to approach these different opportunities, be they a modern rock festival or a club or a bar somewhere…or even Atlantafest! (laughter) He has us here for a reason and He ordained every moment of our time and our schedule. So He'll be faithful to show up if we invite Him and trust Him to give us the words. The Spirit will take over and we can see that He'll accomplish what he's wanted to through us by just being available. And that's not relying on what we know or even what we're used to. Again as youth leaders, I don't know if you grew up in a certain doctrine or you just know that ministry happens a certain way. This was the case for us in many respects. Most of us came from a real conservative background. And our understanding of how ministry happens… there's a message, there's this… But, I think many times as a pastor friend of ours tells us. We've limited God on what He can do and pray almost mediocratively in that way. That we'll just trust God to do exactly what we're pretty comfortable with and used to Him doing, rather than praying for the unbelievable. And even trusting that when we don't say enough or we say too much, that He'll take every little thing… That we really believe it's in His power to use every little thing to that end, that people be redeemed, that it wouldn't line up with a formula. Some nights we don't say anything and He'll take Dan's words, and magically implant them into someone's heart or even like that first night… just the spirit of the music transformed the club. And that's not to say anyone was saved, maybe they were, but there was transformation. And I've read in the Bible, it's just the seeds being planted or even the ground being softened to receive the seeds.

AW: Talk a little about that… that whole ground softening thing.

Steve: That was something in light of what I just kind of ran-on over. (laughs) we encountered that in our familiarity with how we think ministry happens. There's someone that sews the seeds. Then someone reaps the harvest. I guess in looking at that metaphorically, in terms of what we do, we became aware in playing in some of these clubs, that people weren't necessarily ready to hear a lot of that. There needed to be some groundwork laid, even in terms of being prepared to even hear words like God or Jesus or anything resembling the church. Because, people had been burned by the church or had no idea what the church is about. They just knew of it from what they see on CNN. We saw in the midst of going to these clubs… bouncing back and forth in between Smitty, that there was a real need to reach out in these dark places… holding the hand of the Church, but then keeping the other hand in the culture, in whatever way that looked like. And for us, that was really just building relationships, being real people versus an ideology or philosophy that was going to just invade their place.

AW: I think the first time I met you guys and we started spending time together, the thing that always captured me then, and still does, is the mission of this band is to get people to think… get people to think about life… to think about "why the gospel." "Saved from what?" I think oftentimes we assume a lot in post modern culture. That's what I always appreciate about you guys. You guys think deeply about the issues of life and you try almost in parables, the way Jesus did, to do songs that cause people to think. Unforgetful You, what's that all about? You coined a word there. What IS that about?

Dan: Unforgetful is not a real word, in case you were wondering. (laughter)

AW: It may be some day, you never know. The interesting thing too is, I think, the other thing you were talking about, Steve, is it's so easy to become rote, even in student ministry program drills. Hey, I've got Wednesday night. I've got Wednesday night till the Lord comes back and I'm going to do it the same way. But to get outside the comfort zone… you can go, "Lord, what do you want to do tonight?" It doesn't need to be Wednesday night. It could be Tuesday, Thursday, or Friday morning. I think that same idea, going out of the comfort zone… Saying "Holy Spirit, could you use us tonight. We're walking into this club. We don't know what's going to be there. We don't know how much to say. We don't know how little to say. We don't know what you want us to do." I think that same thing is following you guys to Vietnam. I know I made a BIG jump there. These guys just got back from Vietnam. God sort of captured their heart on a whole other level. I think you guys went into that situation saying, "Holy Spirit, what do you want to do with us here?" I'd like for you guys to talk a little about that. Why you went and what happened there, ok? Was that too quick, Charlie?

Charlie: We haven't done this too much yet. We just got back a week ago or so… from Nam. We like to say, "We got back from Nam." I'll start.

AW: You feel like you've been through Nam together.

Charlie: This interest started about a year and a half ago with Dan, when he had a meeting with a guy who works for the organization called "The International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church." It basically helps raise awareness for churches of Christians, believers of other cultures who are oppressed and persecuted and sometimes killed for their faith in Christ. It's something that we weren't very aware of and I think a lot of people don't realize it goes on today. They think "Wow, that happened hundreds of years ago." We don't hear much about it on the news cause our government really doesn't get involved in that sort of thing. So we had been interested and started talking to this organization called PPC. Basically they raise awareness and they get people to pray, because there's not a lot we can really do for them. And that's what we found when we went. We met with pastors of these illegal house churches and the only thing they really asked us was to pray. They asked to tell their stories, and asked people to pray that they would stay strong and others would continue to come to know Christ.