Dan: Do we have time for any more questions, Allen?

AW: Yeah. I think we've got time for another one. Oh my goodness, the lady right behind Eric. She's a real friend of mine and I think we should honor her.

Question: I had a question that's very much for all of us. I would imagine, as youth leaders, we have very tight schedules. We have to get our program needs in line. We've got to make our kids feel loved and be available to them. You guys all have families of your own and one of my biggest struggles right now is making my husband feel that he comes first over my kids, while still doing everything I need to do as a youth leader. He told me to ask if you guys have any special things that you've found that help you in that struggle… making your family feel special.

Steve: Yeah, Matt actually just figured it out! (laughs)

Matt: Yeah, I figured it out a little while ago.

Steve: Man, I mean it's like we're cursed to the plow… So there's that whole thing… (laughs) But let's not talk about that. J Yeah, It just seems like that's our nature in general. Work, work, work! It gets easier just because it gets harder to make time for family. I've learned to be real honest and to be up front and to be as advanced as I can in warnings about potential things. One of the things I got convicted about, just within the last year, is just how disorganized my life is. I don't know if I use this musician thing as a scapegoat, but I really don't advance much on anything. So I think one of the things that's made a big difference in my family or for my family is to kind of know what's going on and even things that are potential. To keep everything out on the table. It's just one of those long life long battles of good communication. I'm going to do it horribly one day and one day I'm right on top of everything and it's so good… and then it still won't matter. (laughs) That's why it's all about Him and not about us.

Dan: I think you need to set boundaries. That's important. You just have to kind of know what your family can endure and you have to be able to say, "Ok, I'm only going to be gone this long and then I'm going to be home." Or, " I'm only going to work this much, and then I'm going to be home." I think that's really important. And the other side of it, is simply to just keep praying that in your heart and in your mind, your family is the most important thing…that your husband or your wife is the most important thing, because it's one thing to live with that ideal, and there's one thing to actually believe it, you know? And I think your family will recognize that too. Then in some strange way, your priorities will fall in line, I think. It doesn't mean it's not going to be tough. But, I think if you really do put your husband or your wife before your youth group, they are going to know it. Because you are going to work and you are going to be weighing your options a little bit more heavily. You're going to be setting those boundaries, so you're going to prove that point.

Matt: For me, I was just going to say… the bottom line comes down to really… and I would think this applies to a lot of scenarios… it seems like especially to the way our lives work and to probably the way a lot of your lives work… It works best when it goes like a partnership. That doesn't necessarily mean if you do youth work, your husband or your spouse also is a youth leader. But it makes a huge difference if they feel partnered with you, in whatever your work is and you feel partnered with them. In a big way, what seems like it works in my marriage, is when we pray together for our individual lives in ministry. We get together and my wife prays for what I'm doing and she really feels connected to and believes in the heart of the what the band is. I think for all of us, when our spouses are able to be at that place where they really believe in the heart of what's happening in the band, they're willing to kind of let us leave them at home for 30 weeks out of the year. I mean, if they don't believe in it, then why would they even bother to lend you to that? So that's what we have to pray for.

AW: Are you guys ok?

Charlie: We can probably do a couple more.

AW: Ok, let's do a couple more if you guys are fine.

Question: My question was… there are some bands that bill themselves as a Christian band and there are others that don't, but their message is still the same. I don't know if you guys bill yourself as a Christian band or not? Do you see that falling into the honesty area at all, or do you think it matters whether you're billed in a certain way or not?

Steve: That's a sensitive issue in a certain respect… then we're contained in our own hands. People are going to say what they're going to say regardless of whatever opportunities we get. So, I don't think it's wrong to say… we're a band and we're Christians or we're a Christian rock band. Some people have a problem with the isolation of the two and the separate state that that means… that Christians are over here, and music of Satan is over here! (laughs)

I think through me, I just see that truth isn't exclusive to Christianity. I hope that's not new to some of you (laughs)… but it's not. So, I think in a certain respect, when we attach a Christian philosophy to our music, and not say that it's rock 'n roll or rap or easy listening, but that it's Christian easy listening or Christian rap, that in a way, it separates itself. And what that looks like, in trying to integrate our music and our art, that hopefully has been God-breathed into the culture, makes it sometimes difficult because of the biases that we've already mentioned… about people having a negative experience with the church or none at all. So it's a tension we live in and aren't comfortable with, ever, usually, but we have to trust that regardless of how we were billed or even however we think of ourselves, that ultimately God will have us there for a reason and that He'll redeem that situation.

Dan: I think there's an element to it that really is just about being wise as a serpent. I don't think I would be as excited for a band like Creed if they came out and said, "Yeah, we're a Christian band" and then got pigeon holed into this kind of thing. I was just watching MTV this morning and they have the number one video in the country. It's a song called "Higher," which has a very Christian message. I think they wouldn't have that necessarily if they'd just embraced the Christian marketplace. I think they embraced their faith, but I think they are also being able to impact culture, but more by going through the back door there. It might just be like any one of us trying to get another kid to come to our youth group going through a high school. Is it more important for us to say, "Hey, I'm a Christian. I want you to come to my youth group?" Or is it, "Hey, I really care about you." You know, that initial step is not really about your conversion experience or what you believe. It's about how are you loving or reaching out to those people. So I think that's a big part of that.

AW: Did y'all hear how huge that was? That was huge right there! We've been tricked here a little bit, okay? Wear a Christian t-shirt, have a testimony… I'm not sure about that.

Steve: John Fischer that wrote… I don't know if you've heard of John Fischer, he writes the back page of CCM a lot… Actually all the time! (laughs) He had one just recently about how his buddies gave him a "This Blood's for You" or whatever Christian t-shirt. And he also is a musician and he also had a Fender t-shirt. He loves Stratocasters and plays Fenders. He noticed that more people were talking to him when he was wearing his Fender t-shirt because they could relate… You know, a lot of people play Fenders. (laughs) Non-Christians play Fenders! (laughs)

AW: I think it's the issue of what engages a non-Christian and what opens doors to share our faith with them. I think there's some wrong thinking. There's some right thinking too, don't get me wrong. I don't know where the right stops and the wrong starts, but I think what Dan said is crucial! I think if we teach students… loving their friends, and being available to be a part of God meeting those friend's needs, and ultimately through a relationship with Christ. Boy, there's nothing better!

Dan: Just real quick. Just to make that point. One of the reasons that government is so adamant to pursue and persecute Christians in China is that Christianity is the one thing that threatens their government. It's the one thing that really is going to make a difference because it builds unity. I think in the United States, Christianity somehow, is building separation. You know, we have our own music section in the record stores. We have our own kinds of video shows. We have our own this or that, which is just us separating ourselves from culture. We're basically saying we have the gospel so we can't be in the regular music section. We can't be in the regular video section. What are we doing? We're causing a gap instead of causing unity. When there's unity, there's power. When two or more are gathered in the name of Christ, that's unity and that's where power comes from. That's really important because if we're just out there to wear it on our sleeve… A lot of times, when we're in bars and clubs playing, there's a lot of kids that will jump up in the midst of a lot of people that aren't Christians and scream, "We love Jesus, yes we do. We love Jesus, how 'bout you?" And I think that's great for like Atlantafest… that's great! But in a bar, where there are a lot of people who aren't Christians, that's really scary. Cause basically what you're doing is… you're a cheerleader. But what are you cheering for? It ceases to become sinners and the gospel. It becomes the Christians and the non-Christians, the Pharisees and the other people. I think that's one of the things we're excited to see in this culture… that maybe Christianity would start being more about unity and less of us and them.

Steve: I was going to say… part of the answer is kind of in your question. That certain bands establish themselves as this or that… that really the ultimate call is to marvel at how God works and how he uses certain bands for different things or certain people and certain ministries for his eternal purposes. It shouldn't be about how we market ourselves or set ourselves up or see how we should be involved in umm… stuff. (laughs)

We keep going back to this and I hope you hear that we're not coming down… saying that there shouldn't be any Family Christian Store or there shouldn't be a Lifeway store, but we should just approach everything with the mentality that we're all in some degree called to be in our culture and involved there. And what does that look like? That doesn't mean that we shouldn't have Christian t-shirts! Some of those things are good. Some kids need that comradery with other Christians. "We've got our t-shirts, you know… we match!" God's gym, and that's fine. Everything to the end that God would be the glory. I think that's true.

AW: That's good. From a youth worker's side, I think it's the difference between sitting in your office and sending out a flyer and saying, "We've got youth group on Wednesday night. And if you want to come… come." The difference would be going on campus and trying to find a way to get involved. Trying to find a way to support the athletic teams, taking videos of them and serving at that level. I think that's all they're saying. Let's get out of where we are categorized, and let's go live the Christian life and let God use us!

Question: I've got some guys in my group who are pretty serious about the music. They're Christians, but they're struggling with the Limp Bizkits and the Korns and some of those guys. Did y'all ever come to a point in your life that you said, "Hey, I've got to separate from that?!"

Steve: I grew up in a really conservative Baptist background… Northern Baptist, so we weren't even nearly as friendly as some of the Southern Baptists. (crowd laughs!)

AW: Hey, the old Steve is back! I love it! Come on!

Steve: Yeah, the old Steve is back cutting up on his conservative upbringing! I had this great Beatles White Album poster and Joshua Tree tour poster (U2) that my brother had gotten me. And I threw all of it away… like I purged my room. And then later on, I thought about my Sgt. Pepper's poster and some others and I ripped those down too. I would just waver in legalism like for most of my adolescence. And I think I've come to the conclusion even now, as I have a little one. One day he's going to come home with music or whatever… or just pull music off of our shelf. He's going to go, "So what about this?" I think it's just ultimately important that there's balance, in that, anything that is too one-sided is just bad! I think the Bible calls us to a life of moderation in every aspect that we feel called to appropriate that. I think that goes especially for music, cause I'm pretty passionate. These guys know… I listen to music all the time. You've got to balance it. It can't be entirely one thing and not the other. I'm not telling you to authorize your kids, "Go out and by the new Limp Bizkit, cause it's great!" (laughter) cause it's probably not. It probably has a very negative message. There's probably swearing. But I think, just to approach these things with a heart of grace and a desire to have balance, and then as Dan kind of challenged before… how far are we willing to go to love our kids that are in the midst of that, as far as even going to a show with them to show how much you care. "I'm going to the Metallica show because I love you and I want to be involved with what your interested in."

AW: And to teach them to learn to process. How does that apply to what the scripture says? You're actually challenging their thinking in the process.

Dan: I think it really is important, I mean. A big part of it, I think what Steve is saying too is… there has to be a filter. There has to be something that you're listening to the stuff with… weighing out its message. It's important for youth leaders, I think especially, because a lot of the stuff kids can't even talk to their parents about anymore. But a youth leader has a very unique and great position, because you can sit down with this kid and listen to this Limp Bizkit record and go, "Ok, you really like this song. That's cool. Well, let's look at what he's saying. How does that line up with what you believe here?" And at least just get them to think about what they're listening to. I think that's important because then they're going to be able to effectively react to what they're dealing with. I think to completely pull them away from it can almost be negative. Really what you're going to do then… All of their friends, everybody that hopefully they can impact is going to be doing one thing and they're not really going to know anything about it, because they're going to distance themselves so far from it. They're not going to be educated enough to sit having a conversation with one of their friends and say, "You know, this song that you're listening to… this is what it's talking about. I want you to consider something else." But they're not going to have that knowledge to relate to their friends anymore. I think that's sort of been where the church is coming out of. It's a place where it's sort of lost it's ability to understand kids and culture, because we've separated ourselves from it. And now there's a new surge to get back involved in culture. It's scary, but at the same time, that's how we're affecting these kids. They're going to go, "My youth leader, he knows about Korn. He knows about these bands. He's educated about that. But that also means he cares about the things that I care about." And that's going to build your platform to talk to them, I think.

AW: Dan, talk about Billy Graham. An 82 year old evangelist, and he began his message… Were you guys out there when he first started? Yeah, you were on the stage!

Charlie: He quoted the singer of Korn from an interview where he said… Basically, the lead singer of Korn was saying, "I'm not happy. I put on this mask and I act like I'm enjoying myself, but I'm really miserable inside." He uses that to get attention.

AW: So here's a guy, the evangelist of our generation, who's taken time to find out about this stuff because he knows the kids are listening to it and he wants to be relevant. What a brilliant plan… And he said, "I want to talk to you tonight about something you can find real fulfilling." And here's a guy 82 years old.

Steve: And he's seen the need. I mean, even the conception of bringing in the Youth Night to what he does and having contemporary music, I mean, was beyond the Billy Graham Association a few years ago.

AW: And beyond some of them now! There are still guys who are probably twenty years younger than he is, who thinks he's doing the wrong thing. They think he's sold out to the devil.

Dan: There are people in his organization that will come up to us and say, "I don't really understand what you're doing. I don't get it at all. But I see that you're reaching these kids and so I'm glad you're here." There's an element of that that's really exciting!

AW: So what you all are facing… in the local church in the context of this with a deacon, or elder, or parent, or pastor who doesn't understand why you're even dealing with this kind of music… you're not alone. Hey, why don't we stop there. Hey, good time, huh?? (applause!)

Would you pray for these guys? Let's pray for their families, pray for the fall tour, the brothers and sisters in China and Vietnam…

End